Megan Griffith (she/her): Hi, everybody! Hold on! Sometimes my camera gets weird when it gets a little bit dark out. So
Megan Griffith (she/her): Hi! How's everybody doing?
Megan Griffith (she/her): Long time? No see?
Megan Griffith (she/her): Hi! Hi! Hi! Alright! We are. Gonna give it until like 8 0, 3 ish before we get started. So we're just gonna wait on people while we wait.
Megan Griffith (she/her): I don't know. Share something that you struggle with when it comes to relationships or something you love about relationships or both.
Megan Griffith (she/her): I'm super curious. Yeah, today's been rough. But I did 6 loads of laundry. Heck, yes, we love that. That's amazing. I need to do laundry so bad. So bad. Oh, yeah, yeah, it's getting ridiculous.
Megan Griffith (she/her): Hmm.
Megan Griffith (she/her): I'm so excited for us to talk about all things love and relationship, and just connecting with other people.
Megan Griffith (she/her): Very excited.
Megan Griffith (she/her): Hey, Amy?
Amy: Hi.
Megan Griffith (she/her): We're giving it another minute or 2
Megan Griffith (she/her): waiting on people to hop on.
Megan Griffith (she/her): and then we'll jump on into it. And tonight what we're doing in case you forgot what we're doing for the 1st night is just a presentation, right? I've got a couple of slides for us about relationships and audio HD, and why
Megan Griffith (she/her): they tend to be tricky for us and ways that we can accommodate ourselves in relationships because relationships are not just for work and for school. They are for all aspects of your life in which you are disabled, which is much of our lives, including our relationships. So so yeah, tonight is our presentation tomorrow night is the conversation with my very neurotypical husband. I'm very excited for that. He's always you guys can ask him anything. He's an open book.
Megan Griffith (she/her): So come, come with questions tomorrow night, and then on the 3rd night, Friday night is Hot seat coaching. So that's where you can just come and ask your questions, and I will answer them to the best of my ability. So
Megan Griffith (she/her): all right, we are at 8 0. 3. So we're gonna just jump on into it.
Megan Griffith (she/her): Let's see. Share, share. Oh, that's my Google Calendar. I would love to not be showing that right now. There we go. Okay.
Megan Griffith (she/her): not that it matters, but it does. It feels weirdly personal. Right? Like your Google Calendar is yours, anyway.
Megan Griffith (she/her): All right. So why relationships are hard for Audie, aged ears, and what to do about it presented by me, Megan Griffith of the Neurocuriosity Club.
Megan Griffith (she/her): So let's just jump on into it. 1st and foremost, a quick safety message. This is intended to be a comfortable space for all participants, and in order to do that no racism, sexism, or ableism, will be tolerated. Please help me to make this a safer space by remembering that people of different race, gender, neurodivergence, or intersection of those and other identities might have a very different experience from yours. And that is a okay.
Megan Griffith (she/her): right?
Megan Griffith (she/her): Codependency is something my husband and I are working on. Yeah, yeah, I yeah, I feel that deep in my bones.
Megan Griffith (she/her): All right. So for those of you who don't know me, I think everybody here knows me pretty well, but in case you're watching the replay. And you're new to my world. Hello! My name is Megan. I am Audhd, meaning I am autistic and Adhd, and even though I am married. I still sometimes struggle with my relationships, and I think that's something
Megan Griffith (she/her): we don't talk about. Enough in our culture is that like marriage is not the end. Marriage is like the beginning. Not that dating didn't count. It does. But like
Megan Griffith (she/her): your relationship keeps growing and changing, and therefore problems keep arising as well. So like it doesn't. It doesn't end when you get married. New level unlocked. Exactly, Jamie. So let's go through some of the common obstacles for audio Hdrs in relationships. I think obstacle number one that a lot of us face is, we just have trouble connecting with other people right? Like, put a 1 in the chat. If you've ever felt like you just can't connect with other human beings.
Megan Griffith (she/her): whether that's in a romantic way or otherwise.
Megan Griffith (she/her): So why, okay, yeah, quite a few ones. Why is this an issue for neurodivergent folks? So we often have a different communication style, relating through anecdotes not having much of a filter relating everything to our special interest or hyper fixation stuff like that. So we communicate differently right?
Megan Griffith (she/her): And according to one study that you can, I will link here in just a second. But neurotypical folks can often spot autism almost right away, even though they don't recognize that it's autism. They just think that we're odd. Have you guys seen this study? It's like the split splice judgments. If you Google splice judgments, autism, it will come up.
Megan Griffith (she/her): Oh, goodness gracious! Sorry! I said the word Google. And my phone freaked out anyway.
Megan Griffith (she/her): so it's very interesting that humans are very good at spotting differences. It's something that we have gotten very good at. And
Megan Griffith (she/her): as a result, like people can sometimes tell that there's something different about us, but they don't know what it is, so they just assume that we're weird or bad or other, right?
Megan Griffith (she/her): So, as a result, many of us get rejected from a very early age, for reasons that the people rejecting us don't understand. We certainly don't understand. And after years of rejection we often want relationships so badly that we ignore red flags.
Megan Griffith (she/her): So solution
Megan Griffith (she/her): connect with yourself first.st So the answer is not to behave more neurotypically, which is what I tried for a very long time I thought for sure that they were right. The problem was me and I was other. I was weird, and I just had to like, be better, be different, be the same as everybody else. Right?
Megan Griffith (she/her): That is not actually the answer. The answer is to behave more like yourself, through a lens of understanding that some people might need education about you in order to have a relationship with you. And that's unfair.
Megan Griffith (she/her): It's really unfair, because there are a lot of neurotypical people who know a lot less about themselves, and can get into and enjoy relationships more and easier than you can. And that's deeply unfair. And it's still the truth for a lot of us right. The truth is, some people need an education about us in order to love us, and that doesn't mean we are unlovable. It just is.
Megan Griffith (she/her): It's the result of the society that we live in right. We live in a society that really strongly judges people who are different.
Megan Griffith (she/her): And so people who are different need to educate their loved ones about those differences. It's really unfair. But it is part of our existence.
Megan Griffith (she/her): So the more authentically you show up in your relationships. The more you allow others to show up authentically with you, which is like huge right? I want everybody to close their eyes just for a minute.
Megan Griffith (she/her): and I want you to picture that one person in your life
Megan Griffith (she/her): that makes you feel so comfortable to be. You
Megan Griffith (she/her): could be an Internet friend, could be family could be siblings could be anybody.
Megan Griffith (she/her): Siblings are family Megan, anyway. I just want you to picture them for a moment, and just like send them a little like vibe of gratitude, and you can open your eyes. But
Megan Griffith (she/her): I just
Megan Griffith (she/her): it's okay to be that person for others. It can be scary to be that vulnerable. But it's not just you that it's benefiting. It's not selfish to be yourself right.
Megan Griffith (she/her): Obstacle number 2 is masking. All right. I'm curious who here identifies as like a high masker, and who here identifies as like, I kind of struggle to mask. Actually.
Megan Griffith (she/her): I'm really curious. I am the mask. Yeah, that's fair. A lot of us do really really absorb our mask and have a hard time
Megan Griffith (she/her): undoing or untangling it.
Megan Griffith (she/her): I masked until I turned 40. Then it broke. Oof! It's hard when the mask gets ripped away when it breaks. That's really really difficult.
Megan Griffith (she/her): was a high masker, and now I struggle to put it back on. I'm like a chameleon. Okay? So we've got kind of a mix right? We have a lot of people who identified as high masking, at least at some point in their life. But maybe don't right now. And yeah, that. Okay.
Megan Griffith (she/her): So why do we mask
Megan Griffith (she/her): shame and safety? Right? These are the 2 big reasons that we tend to mask shame. We are taught that the way we navigate the world is incorrect, and we are shamed into acting, thinking, and being different. And that's what differentiates shame from guilt. By the way, guilt is when you feel bad about something you've done. Shame is when you feel bad about who you are.
Megan Griffith (she/her): and shame is not helpful. It is not helpful to feel bad about existing. You should always exist. We want you to exist right.
Megan Griffith (she/her): And the second thing is safety, being visibly neurodivergent can come with huge safety risks like abuse, police violence, especially for bipoc neurodivergent folks, as we saw with Victor Perez recently, and so many others.
Megan Griffith (she/her): or less physical threats which bullying can be physical. But you know, maybe mental bullying or just social ostracization.
Megan Griffith (she/her): There's a reason we all started masking, and it wasn't just the shame. It was very real protection. And so this is why I have such a problem. When, like
Megan Griffith (she/her): people are like, just unmask. Just be yourself. And it's like, okay. 1st of all, I've been masking so long. I don't even know what just be myself means anymore. So not helpful. Second of all, like, are you gonna like change society so that it's safe for me to unmask? Because, if not like, don't go tell me to make myself unsafe
Megan Griffith (she/her): because it helped you. You know I have issues sometimes with people who are like just unmask. It'll be fine, and I'm like.
Megan Griffith (she/her): will it?
Megan Griffith (she/her): So? Solution number 2 is unmasking in small ways, and we'll get to this in a moment. Right? I know I just said unmasking is not always the solution. But here's what I recommend. Start simple. We don't want to just rip the mask off right? We want to
Megan Griffith (she/her): around the edges like, okay, is it? Okay? Okay, is it? Okay? You know, like, so starting simple, what I did is I started experimenting with stimming when I was alone. So I started unmasking around. No one which you might argue is not really unmasking. But I think it is because a lot of us mask, even when we're fucking alone, right like
Megan Griffith (she/her): we're hiding from ourselves. So start alone. That is much safer often, and and you can just
Megan Griffith (she/her): reflect on what feels good to you. I did a lot of journaling eft, tapping, trying to get in touch with who I am and what I wanted.
Megan Griffith (she/her): One really great exercise for getting to know yourself that blew my mind when a coach suggested it to me was, Make a list 2 lists
Megan Griffith (she/her): of things I like, and things I dislike.
Megan Griffith (she/her): This was so hard for me. Back in like 2021. It was so hard for me. I had literally no idea what I liked and disliked. I had no clue. I could not tell you. I stared at a blank sheet of paper for a long time, so I really recommend trying that it will break you a little, but in a good way, hopefully. And I started with simple things like food colors.
Megan Griffith (she/her): I don't know what else certain classes in school that I had liked or disliked. You know.
Megan Griffith (she/her): the next piece that I recommend is inner child works because a lot of us put our masks on in childhood, and there's probably a very wounded child within us who feels rejected because of it.
Megan Griffith (she/her): They might feel not just rejected by society, but rejected by us by the adult version of us.
Megan Griffith (she/her): and, like that, sucks to feel rejected by yourself
Megan Griffith (she/her): feels really crappy. So we need to comfort those those inner children.
Megan Griffith (she/her): So this is what I was getting at before. You do not have to be unmasked all the time in order to love and be loved. Okay, you do not.
Megan Griffith (she/her): but you do have to unmask a little, at least alone, so that you can feel at home in your body. I know we were talking earlier about not knowing what it feels like to be in our bodies, but to feel like you, are you? And that that's a good thing. Right?
Megan Griffith (she/her): Obstacle 3 is trust. Okay? So we have 2 problems when it comes to trust 1st is over trusting right? A lot of audio Hdrs, especially autistic folks, tend to struggle to comprehend lying, and therefore we can't always see it when we're being used.
Megan Griffith (she/her): Also. Adhders especially tend to well, adhders tend to think in black and white all the time. But adhders can idealize people that we like, which can blind us to the signs that we maybe shouldn't trust them quite as much or quite as fast.
Megan Griffith (she/her): or sometimes we actually don't trust people, but we are settling for being treated badly, because we don't know how to find a healthier way, or we feel like being treated badly, is what we deserve.
Megan Griffith (she/her): This is not true.
Megan Griffith (she/her): Being audihd does not mean that you deserve less, or that no one is capable of loving the real you.
Megan Griffith (she/her): That's just not true.
Megan Griffith (she/her): And you you do deserve to be with somebody that you trust.
Megan Griffith (she/her): So the other problem that we could run into is under trusting.
Megan Griffith (she/her): Sometimes we want to reject others before they have the chance to reject us. It gives us a semblance of control in a world that we feel we have very little control.
Megan Griffith (she/her): We also might have realized from a young age that we don't fit in. So we gave up on forging new relationships. A lot of Audie Hdrs have a very apathetic attitude towards relationships because it's like, okay. This has literally never worked for me before. Why the hell would it work now? Like I'm just not even going to waste my time.
Megan Griffith (she/her): Also, we might not want to get our hopes up that we might finally be understood only to be let down. So it's a protective mechanism. Yeah.
Megan Griffith (she/her): So solution 3, a solution for over trusting is setting firm boundaries in your relationships that allow you to feel loved and respected. Right? So boundaries are hard like. Let's just be honest, boundaries are really really hard. There's a reason they're like a buzzword right now, and it's because so many of us struggle to respect ourselves and respect other people at the same time. It is just. It's tricky, right?
Megan Griffith (she/her): I feel like I deserve it. But I give up, because, coming upon that level of reciprocity from other people feels impossible. Yeah, it it can.
Megan Griffith (she/her): But I think
Megan Griffith (she/her): past relationships are not an indication of future relationships necessarily right? Just because things we haven't been reciprocated in the past doesn't mean we'll never be reciprocated in the future, and
Megan Griffith (she/her): I think
Megan Griffith (she/her): that audio Hdrs we tend to be. Very. We notice a lot of patterns. We can be very receptive and very loving, and
Megan Griffith (she/her): sometimes we feel like other people because they don't notice everything about us. The way that we notice everything about them, or we can feel like we'll never get that same love back. And we might not get love, receive love from someone in the exact same way that we give love.
Megan Griffith (she/her): But we can still receive love in a way that feels good to us, you know. That's something I think me and my husband can talk about a lot tomorrow is this idea of like.
Megan Griffith (she/her): how we give and receive love in different ways. And it's okay to like.
Megan Griffith (she/her): what's the word I'm looking for? I don't like the word compromise, but it's it's okay to like.
Megan Griffith (she/her): I don't know. Talk about that right? Because, like my husband, shows love in ways that I am not always capable of receiving. And so we've had to talk about like, Hey, I actually need you to show love in this way if you want me to receive it, and vice versa. I've had to do that, too. So
Megan Griffith (she/her): yeah, sorry. A bit of a tangent. But I hope that that helps the second solution for over trusting is, get in touch with what you want and need from your relationships, which is kind of exactly what we were talking about, right like, get in touch with how you show love, how you receive love, what you want, what you need. And that way you can communicate that with other people. Right?
Megan Griffith (she/her): Solution 3. B. For under trusting, you want to practice vulnerability with safe people, or even alone, by getting real about how badly you want a healthy relationship.
Megan Griffith (she/her): It's very, very hard to get what we want. If we won't even admit that we want it right? We gotta be honest with ourselves. And even that is oh, Fonda, you're totally fine. Don't even worry about it. But we just want to practice being vulnerable, even if it's just with ourselves. Right?
Megan Griffith (she/her): Oh, if everybody could check real quick that they're muted, it's just distracting. If I can hear things. Sorry. Okay. The second solution is
Megan Griffith (she/her): asking for support. Even when you feel like you're being clingy or dependent. This is a big one for people who have avoidant relationship patterns. Right?
Megan Griffith (she/her): You might avoid asking for help or asking for love or asking for what you need, because it feels like. Well, they should just know.
Megan Griffith (she/her): or it feels like. If I have to ask, then I don't deserve it, or it feels like if I ask, I'm being clingy or dependent, or whatever. So
Megan Griffith (she/her): all of all of that good stuff. Right? 1, 1, all of the above.
Megan Griffith (she/her): Yeah. So small solutions for this is just asking for support in ways that are low stakes and working your way up to higher stakes support right?
Megan Griffith (she/her): So the next obstacle is differing brains.
Megan Griffith (she/her): So why is this an obstacle? Different brains work differently. Theoretically, we should be able to make this work because we live in a society built for neurotypicals, but because we live in a society that is built for neurotypicals, that is seen as the default, and we are seen as the other right. Our needs are therefore not seen as valid. And we're supposed to just need what everyone else needs.
Megan Griffith (she/her): Right? It takes serious communication to make all relationships work, because we all have different brains. So if you're like, if I could just date another audio, HD person, they're going to have completely opposite support needs as you. And it's going to be just like, you know, everybody is different. Really, you know, the only difference is another audio. Hdr. Might understand what it means to make accommodations for another person. You know what I mean.
Megan Griffith (she/her): So solution is communication, so much communication, like almost too much communication, like.
Megan Griffith (she/her): I think, sometimes we pull back thinking. Well, if I talk about it, I'm going to make it worse. But I think that that's not true. I think the more we can talk about our differences and our similarities, and how we show love and how communicate, about how you communicate, like, I really really believe in communication, and like, it is hard as shit like. It is so difficult
Megan Griffith (she/her): to communicate with a loved one when you are so different.
Megan Griffith (she/her): and you don't know if you're going to be able to explain it. Well.
Megan Griffith (she/her): but I think it's worth trying, you know.
Megan Griffith (she/her): Yeah, I think the person who is also audio HD. Has to know they are in order to accommodate
Megan Griffith (she/her): for sure, that can be part of it.
Megan Griffith (she/her): I think we can discover these things together, you know, and it's possible to support people through that discovery as long as they are open to like
Megan Griffith (she/her): accepting help and communicating right? All the communication. Because if someone's like, yeah, I'm Audhd. But I'm not going to change anything about my life like.
Megan Griffith (she/her): okay.
Megan Griffith (she/her): I could see that presenting a problem or, Yeah, I know you're Adhd, but I'm not going to change anything about my life. For you like again, like.
Megan Griffith (she/her): okay like that could present really big problems.
Megan Griffith (she/her): So you want to educate your loved one on your particular experience of neurodivergence. You want to give them resources to watch, listen to read whatever they prefer, you know, and you can go through those resources with them like this is what I loved about this Tiktok like, or this, is you really pay attention at like the 3 min mark of this Youtube, video or whatever right?
Megan Griffith (she/her): And also I recommend asking for resources in return. Even if they are neurotypical.
Megan Griffith (she/her): ask them to communicate about their brain with you, just like you communicate with them about your brain. Aka, you are not the other
Megan Griffith (she/her): right? Because if you're the only one who's communicating about your needs, and we're just pretending that your partner or partners
Megan Griffith (she/her): don't have needs, or that their needs are normal, and therefore like don't need communicated about like none of that. No hard pass, right? Like everyone has needs those needs need to be acknowledged and addressed and met. Right? So yeah.
Megan Griffith (she/her): my spouse may be on Ed, but doesn't know he is and not interested in learning or finding out. Yeah, yeah. And I understand why, especially in today's climate, why some people don't want to get professionally diagnosed. That makes sense. But you still need to understand. You know how your behavior is affecting the people you love right and like.
Megan Griffith (she/her): and making reasonable adjustments to make sure that everybody feels safe and loved, you know. So I get that
Megan Griffith (she/her): obstacle. Number 5 is conflict and trauma.
Megan Griffith (she/her): So why do neurodivergent folks struggle with this. So sometimes here, sometimes we blow up in response to a threat which is often due to trauma. Right? Conflict can suggest that our reality isn't valid. So we get defensive. We try to shut down any opposing view, and we may even resort to name calling, or personal digs in order to protect ourselves.
Megan Griffith (she/her): Put a 1 in the chat, if that's you.
Megan Griffith (she/her): Other times we may shut down in response to to conflict
Megan Griffith (she/her): which is also often due to trauma. We've so often been told that our reality isn't valid, that we've been beaten down, and we just give up when someone disagrees with us. Put a 2 in the chat. If the shutdown response is more, you or put a 3 in the chat, if you like to ping pong between them, because that is often me. Deidre deidre feels me. Yeah. Jamie and Fonda are more in the shutdown category. I get that. Okay. Rose is in the ping pong. I get it?
Megan Griffith (she/her): Yeah. And it's it's really frustrating because our loved ones can feel like we're really unpredictable or hard to talk to. It can make communication difficult if we're constantly getting defensive or shutting down. So.
Megan Griffith (she/her): yeah, this is, this is a tough one.
Megan Griffith (she/her): This reaction to conflict is rarely because of, you know, autism or Adhd. But rather, it's because of trauma we've suffered due to being Audhd, right?
Megan Griffith (she/her): So solution number 5 is trauma healing. So I really recommend working with therapists on this. I feel like it's often one of the safest ways to do this now. Obviously there are shit therapists out there, but a lot of them are very good, and I think trauma healing, when done not well, can make things worse. So I just I recommend therapy for sure, if at all possible
Megan Griffith (she/her): working with a coach like me can help supplement therapy for sure and learning about somatic healing techniques so like body healing like eft tapping emdr therapy or breath work can make a huge difference, because trauma just lives in our cells, you know, and if it needs released, and some of this stuff really helps with that.
Megan Griffith (she/her): I feel like I'm better with conflict compared to when I was younger. That's great. But the people around me haven't upskilled in this area. Yeah.
Megan Griffith (she/her): yep. And that makes it so hard, like, how am I supposed to keep growing and changing when no one around me will grow and change like, I totally get that.
Megan Griffith (she/her): It's tough. I used to people, please. And fawn. Yeah, that's a big one. That's a really big one. People pleasing is
Megan Griffith (she/her): a huge way that so many of us stay safe.
Megan Griffith (she/her): Okay, so that is the end of my presentation. We went through some of the common obstacles and come of some of the solutions to go with them.
Megan Griffith (she/her): So now we've got about a half hour. So if anybody has questions about that, or wants me to go deeper into any of it. Please feel free to ask. You can ask in the chat, or you can come off mute. Please remember this is being recorded, and the replay will be sent out. So if you come off mute, your voice will be shared. So just
Megan Griffith (she/her): I'm okay with that. But I want to make sure you're okay with that, if you choose to come off mute. Do you mind mentioning the 1st 3? Of course, of course. Fonda. So
Megan Griffith (she/her): so obstacle number one is trouble making connections with others. Obstacle number 2 is masking and obstacle number 3 is trust, so either over trusting or under trusting, depending on the person, or maybe even the situation.
Megan Griffith (she/her): Of course, the work only works when others have also done the work. Yes.
Megan Griffith (she/her): yeah, Jamie, totally. I bounce back and forth from needing to be in control and people pleasing. Yeah, yeah, that's a big one. Because if you think about it, people pleasing is about control. Right people. Pleasing is just about trying to control others by doing what they want, so that they'll do what you want right? It's
Megan Griffith (she/her): I hesitate to call it manipulative, because the word manipulative implies intent, and most people, when they're people pleasing, do not intend to manipulate necessarily, or it implies ill intent, which really, people who are people pleasing are doing it out of survival. Right? They're panicked. They're not trying to manipulate, to be mean. But it is a little manipulative right to people, please like that. So yeah.
Megan Griffith (she/her): I don't know how to have authentic interactions like ever. I'm always keeping a wallop between me and others.
Megan Griffith (she/her): Do you keep that wall up with yourself? Would be the question I would ask, can you be authentic alone?
Megan Griffith (she/her): Yeah.
Megan Griffith (she/her): I think that's the place you got to start. Take the wall down when you're alone. Get to be authentic with yourself, because you don't want to be authentic for the 1st time ever with someone else like, or at least I don't, because that's terrifying, like
Megan Griffith (she/her): I don't know if they're gonna accept me because I've never even accepted me before and like, I don't know, like, I can't handle that at all.
Megan Griffith (she/her): so yeah, I think
Megan Griffith (she/her): getting vulnerable and honest and authentic with yourself. First, st I think, is really, really helpful. And then practice having authentic interactions with other people.
Megan Griffith (she/her): Right?
Megan Griffith (she/her): I have so many thoughts. Yeah, Amy, yeah, share them as they come, share them as they pop up.
Megan Griffith (she/her): I'm super eager to hear what you all think, or if you have any specific questions about relationships, or
Megan Griffith (she/her): masking or any of it. I'm I'm here to talk about all of it. If you guys would like.
Amy: I can come off mute. If that's okay.
Megan Griffith (she/her): Yeah.
Amy: Okay.
Amy: I think one of the things I really discovered in my most recent adult relationship is something that I was not aware of at all for any of my previous ones.
Amy: which was that a lot of our conflict and the way that we cope with conflict deal with conflict and interact with other. Just everything that we do. A lot of it stems from
Amy: our childhood trauma like in the way that our parents raised us and how we interacted with our parents and all that fun stuff!
Amy: And it's just so bizarre to me that I was able to go so far in life
Amy: without having any of those realizations like I think therapy helped. But
Amy: you know, like, when I would get in a fight with an ex-boyfriend like
Amy: the world would just end like it would blow. It was like a mushroom cloud. My life was over, it would destroy me, it would destroy my self-esteem, and I was completely, forever changed, like, I couldn't just like, take a deep breath and be like, I'm better than this, like, I
Amy: love myself. And I'm going to be okay, regardless of this other person's moods behavior. What have you
Amy: so, without rambling too much and dealing with all of that?
Amy: While also, not knowing that I was neurodivergent, like just having 0 information to go on.
Amy: Is so hard like
Amy: it's like there's no there's no playbook for any of it. There's no explanation for how you're supposed to cope. And
Amy: I just I just feel like that's a large part of like the confusing aspects of all of these things, and it takes years of trial and error to even get anywhere close to where you want to be.
Amy: anyway. So I guess that's all my thoughts.
Megan Griffith (she/her): No, I love all of that. Yeah, like.
Megan Griffith (she/her): I think what you said about there not being a playbook, I think, is just. I mean. That's true for all relationships. But it's hard because it feels like when you're neurotypical.
Megan Griffith (she/her): You at least have the playbook on how to be a person.
Megan Griffith (she/her): You might not have the playbook on how to be in relationship with other people. But you have the playbook on how to be you. We don't even have that playbook, and it's like, Oh, no like, how am I supposed to do this?
Megan Griffith (she/her): Yeah, Deidre says. Struggles with identity. That's a big one, for sure.
Megan Griffith (she/her): Jamie says same, realizing recently how much my parents ways of doing things have been given to me, caused me to struggle with so many things, especially relationships and identity.
Megan Griffith (she/her): Yeah, yeah, I've been on an identity seeking journey. Yeah, Rose, totally. How do I? People have you guys ever watched the show? Crazy ex-girlfriend? It sounds very sexist, but the whole show is really about picking that term apart. It's very good. I think it's a musical show, and I love musicals. But at 1 point she's having a very significant breakdown, and this delivery guy comes to
Megan Griffith (she/her): the door and she sings this song called, Tell me I'm okay, Patrick.
Megan Griffith (she/her): And at 1 point she's screaming about how like.
Megan Griffith (she/her): you know, everybody out there is in their cabal of normal people. And I'm just here. I'm the jester in my own Truman show, and it's like she was sick the day in kindergarten. They taught you how to be a person, and you know it's like everybody else has the manual, and she's like, do you have the manual in your truck, Patrick? I know it's in your truck, Patrick. It's great. I've probably shown that clip to a lot of you, because I just
Megan Griffith (she/her): who I relate to that hard.
Megan Griffith (she/her): Okay? A big obstacle right now is finding people to connect with. I set a goal for myself this year to go to at least 2 events. A month hasn't worked so far for making new friends or finding someone to date. I've tried all the dating apps, and that's been a huge waste of time. I don't know where to find people. It sucks to keep trying and get no results. I can tell myself that I'm deserving and worthy all I want. But that doesn't change my reality.
Megan Griffith (she/her): Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I think
Megan Griffith (she/her): I think a lot of things.
Megan Griffith (she/her): I think I'm really, really proud of you for putting yourself out there on the apps. And in real life like, I think that that's so much easier said than done. I think a lot of here. A lot of people here can probably attest to the fact that that is hard to do. And so, 1st of all, like just
Megan Griffith (she/her): congrats on on trying. I'm sorry it's not working like that really does suck, and I think
Megan Griffith (she/her): I don't know. I am not
Megan Griffith (she/her): the best person in the world, for, like
Megan Griffith (she/her): adult dating advice, I'm good at teaching people how to love themselves and how to like once you're in a relationship, how to like handle that better. But finding someone I got ridiculously like stupid, lucky, and like, met
Megan Griffith (she/her): my husband and I have known each other since, like 4th grade or something. And
Megan Griffith (she/her): I don't know. We were in this same like church youth, group or whatever in high school. And all of a sudden he went from, like my friends, like weird older brother to like. Oh, he's actually pretty cute, you know. So like.
Megan Griffith (she/her): Yes, there are neurodivergent dating apps. I don't know if you've tried Hickey HIK. I'm not sure how you say it. But
Megan Griffith (she/her): I think I've heard good things. I just deleted it. Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry.
Megan Griffith (she/her): same, I feel like I was sick the day we all learned how to just be okay with ourselves, despite how others treat us. Yeah, well, I mean, if you think about it, Amy, do you have examples of that going well from authority figures, and like loved ones when you were young?
Megan Griffith (she/her): Because if the answer is no like, why in the world would your nervous system have that pattern memorized
Megan Griffith (she/her): it wouldn't. You're gonna have to consciously teach it, you know.
Megan Griffith (she/her): Moving from casual friendliness to something deeper is so hard I think it can be, but I also think sometimes it's like
Megan Griffith (she/her): it's hard because we make it hard sometimes not all the time, but like, I think.
Megan Griffith (she/her): for, like me and my husband like I said we'd known each other for years, and like really didn't care that much about each other at all, like we. We didn't talk much.
Megan Griffith (she/her): and then
Megan Griffith (she/her): I don't know. Something just kind of flipped, and both of us were like, I don't know. We could just try it like. I think there's like a reckless abandon when it comes to dating when you're younger, because it feels like you have nothing to lose, whereas, as you get older. I think it can be a lot more stressful because it's like, I don't want to waste my fucking time. It's like you're not
Megan Griffith (she/her): my person, or at least could be my person. So I do get that totally. There's an app called Geneva that was recently bought by Bumble. That looks really interesting. I haven't heard of that one. Is that neurodivergence specific, or is it? I'm curious.
Megan Griffith (she/her): But yeah, Yvonne, I think, putting yourself out, there is a really really great step to take, and like
Megan Griffith (she/her): I hate that. All of my advice to you recently has been like, just keep going like you can do it. But like, because I know that doesn't feel good to hear. But like I also am like not going to tell you that it's never going to happen, because I don't believe that I think everything I know about you as a person is that you are incredibly intelligent and kind and interesting, and like ideal person to date based on those criteria. Right? So like, I just think.
Megan Griffith (she/her): I choose to believe that your person or people are out there. You know I choose to believe that for you, and I hope I hope that you can believe that too, you know
Megan Griffith (she/her): not nd specific, but has a lot of potential. Oh, okay, sweet love finds a way, if you're open to receiving it. I think so to a certain extent, right? Like.
Megan Griffith (she/her): what's that saying? Like, you know.
Megan Griffith (she/her): love always finds you. Once you give up and stop like searching for it so hard. I don't think that's always true. I think sometimes you have to put yourself in a position to find love, you know, a little bit, but like you're trying to do, which is great. But I also have seen a lot of truth in the fact that, like once, people are like, you know what fuck it. I don't even care like I just don't even care. And like it's I don't want to say, like play, reverse psychology with the universe, because I don't think that works well when you do it intentionally. But like.
Megan Griffith (she/her): I think, reaching a point where you decide.
Megan Griffith (she/her): what is it like? People aren't competing with other people for your love and affection. People are competing with your alone. Time and like, are they better to hang out with than being alone? You know
Megan Griffith (she/her): I always felt like there has always been a huge divide between deep, intense relationships and super casual acquaintances hard to find a middle ground. Okay, Amy, yeah, that I still struggle with that part, for sure, because it's like I have my people who like I could confess a murder to.
Megan Griffith (she/her): And then I have people who like. I'm not gonna tell you anything about me that's even remotely personal. But we can be loose acquaintances, I guess, and
Megan Griffith (she/her): there's not a lot of in between. So I do. I get that, Amy. I don't really know if I have advice for that, I don't know how to do anything halfway. It's like we watched this stand up special, called 4 Pills by Cameron Esposito the other night, and she just keeps saying over and over.
Megan Griffith (she/her): I go hard like I do everything hard. I do everything big. I go hard. And like, Yeah, that's kind of it's very relatable. The universe would laugh at me if I claimed I don't care anymore. Yeah, yeah. So maybe like, that's part of it a little bit like.
Megan Griffith (she/her): you know.
Megan Griffith (she/her): not saying you shouldn't want it. You're allowed to want a relationship, you know, and you're allowed to be honest about wanting a relationship, but also maybe not like needing it to complete you or needing it to feel better about ourselves like there, you know, like
Megan Griffith (she/her): wanting it, because we want it instead of wanting it, because we feel like we're not enough without it, like there's like a fine line between that. You know.
Megan Griffith (she/her): I met my partner because we both liked rocks. Sometimes you just gotta look for the other weirdos. Yes.
Megan Griffith (she/her): agreed.
Megan Griffith (she/her): That is awesome weirdos in the streets, freaks in the streets. It's hilarious, Deidre, I love it.
Megan Griffith (she/her): Have you seen those freak in the sheets? Stickers that it's like an excel spreadsheet? I think those are funny. That's my kind of freak in the sheets. Kind of thing, although I'm not that good at excel, either, to be honest. But
Megan Griffith (she/her): aye, aye, okay, well, we still have a good 20 min. Do you guys have other questions or thoughts?
Megan Griffith (she/her): I was about to make an Excel joke. That's funny.
Megan Griffith (she/her): My husband and I had to let each other separate a bit and focus on our individual healthcare and journeys. Yeah.
Megan Griffith (she/her): has that been hard? Has that been helpful? Now we're way more connected. That's awesome.
Megan Griffith (she/her): Yeah.
Megan Griffith (she/her): Lol unmasked me is like I can talk for hours on this. Please do go for it. Talk about it. I want to hear all the things.
Amy: I know I really like my my ping pong brain is like there's so many thoughts.
Amy: But like my, I just, I keep going back to this idea that, like.
Amy: I have, like the one core relationship in my life right now, because
Amy: I have my partner and my toddler who's like
Amy: my whole life like it's been a running theme, and, like all of my therapy, is like when you were thinking when you said, Think of the person who you feel the most safe with like my thought. My 1st thought was her, which is so weird, because, like she didn't exist 3 years ago, and like and like, why is that? Why is she that person for me now? So I I don't know. It's it's like.
Amy: I feel like in some ways a lot of my relationship are are really solid, and I feel like a lot of them. Still, really struggle like I like. I don't even think it's me like I. The relationship is struggling. You know what I'm saying. Does that make sense like?
Amy: It's like trying to figure out what it is, whatever person, especially in my friendships, so like
Amy: not even in this romantic way, where, like, I know, I have a close friend
Amy: who I see pretty frequently.
Amy: but like I feel like I still feel like there's this huge barrier like there's just something there, sure
Amy: and I don't know what it is, and I just feel like it's always been there like since, like the day we met, and we've known each other for like 8 years. It's just this.
Amy: I don't know, and it's frustrating, because I know I can see the effort that she's been putting in. And and I've been trying to put in like the same amount. And like
Amy: we're trying to meet in the middle. But we don't know where the middle is.
Amy: So it's like.
Amy: I don't know we're past the age of like I'm gonna be your my like, my bridesma, you know you know what I mean. Like all that.
Megan Griffith (she/her): Yeah.
Amy: Stuff
Amy: we're like, not in that stage of our life where, like, I feel like, some of it's kind of performative, like when we're growing up. It's like
Amy: we have these opportunities to like show up for people.
Megan Griffith (she/her): Hmm, hmm.
Amy: And now that we're older, it's like those opportunities, aren't there? Like.
Amy: you know, we're not going to each other's college graduation, or, you know. Like, what do we? What do you do like besides, get lunch
Amy: ladies who watch, I don't know like I I don't know. I I've had a lot of bad experiences, with friendships, too, like.
Amy: I had one go really sour about around about 10 years ago, and
Amy: I can't even really figure out like what happened. But
Amy: it just didn't work out like it ended like a bad relationship would end. You know.
Amy: where. It's just like, mutually, we just decided this isn't working for us anymore, anyway. So it's just like a long
Amy: battle of like
Amy: trying to figure out how to be me in these situations and relationships. And I feel like. I'm almost there, but not quite
Amy: a lot of.
Megan Griffith (she/her): Yeah.
Amy: So.
Megan Griffith (she/her): Yeah, I feel like
Megan Griffith (she/her): relationships when we're younger are easier for a lot of reasons. 1st of all, there was a study that shows it takes about 200 h for someone to be considered a close friend 200 h with that person in school that goes by in like 6 months
Megan Griffith (she/her): right? Whereas as an adult that can take fucking years right like that can take forever to build up 200 h with a person. And so I think that's probably part of it. Maybe you guys, even though you see each other frequently. Maybe it's like you need a little more time, or maybe when you hang out, it needs to be more than just an hour at a time, you know, potentially
Megan Griffith (she/her): so that's 1 potential solution. Another thing that came to mind for me was like
Megan Griffith (she/her): sometimes people with childhood trauma around relationships around attachment. We
Megan Griffith (she/her): especially people. If you had, like caregivers who maybe
Megan Griffith (she/her): blew up, lost their temper a lot, and then they would try to make it up to you. Right?
Megan Griffith (she/her): We can associate those big shows of affection with like, oh, that's the only way to show and receive love like small forms of affection don't count because you didn't get those. You only got the huge apologies, the you know all that stuff so like. I wonder if that could be playing a part, too, where it's like, well, I want the big shows of affection like and learning to be okay with small shows of affection, and like, they add up over time and allowing those to count
Megan Griffith (she/her): like can be a big part of building adult relationships. You know.
Amy: Yeah. And one thing I really, I felt like I worked through in therapy a little bit a couple years ago, was even with this person, and with others I struggled with
Amy: disagreeing, and not like vehemently on political things, but like when we get Mexican, they like Verde and I like Roja, you know what I mean and like, and then like them, feeling very strongly that they would never eat roja, because that
Amy: doesn't know the taste that they like. They like their day, and for some reason like something in me, was just like, Well, how can we be friends if we don't like the same sauce on our burrito, and I'm not knowing like where, right? Not knowing like.
Amy: where is that coming from like that? That like feeling of like heartbreak over like something so stupid and insignificant
Amy: like.
Amy: And it was something like I was. I was like, I think I need a therapist like when I started to have thoughts like that, you know. It was just kind of like. Why do I need my friends to be carbon copies of me.
Amy: and like.
Megan Griffith (she/her): Why would you need someone to be a carbon copy of you? What would that.
Amy: I do?
Megan Griffith (she/her): For you.
Amy: It's a safety thing. It's like, I fear that if we have these minor differences that we also have major differences, and it's just an only a matter of time before it comes out
Amy: that, like we are, you know, diametrically opposed in some way that isn't
Amy: sustainable to me, because that has happened in my in my past, and you know I mean, like with the climate right now I am I I am very selective, you know I if I get a whiff of like
Amy: they're a little conservative for my taste.
Amy: and I don't like being like reverse bigoted. You know what I mean, like reverse judgmental feels like. But like in these
Amy: times, I feel like I need to preserve a sense of safety.
Amy: And you know, like, I don't want to actually become friends with the Nazi, because I was like open minded about them, having different opinions.
Megan Griffith (she/her): Sure.
Amy: You know, but because it's been a very real thing like
Amy: so I know. And I feel like, you know. Maybe the barrier is mine. Like I, I have a hard time getting close to people anymore because of those
Amy: those situations. I found myself in.
Amy: So I mean, that's that's something I can definitely look at. But it's just so
Amy: so frustrating because I don't want to find myself in little echo Chambers, but I do feel so safe in spaces like this, where I hear
Amy: and see people talking about things that I can understand and agree with and relate to.
Megan Griffith (she/her): So.
Amy: I don't. I? I guess I just don't know what to do with all of that at this point. But I'm open to changing.
Megan Griffith (she/her): I think a big thing for me is like, because I also have that experience where, if people disagree with me on something, sometimes it can feel like life shattering. And it's about like really small stuff.
Megan Griffith (she/her): And
Megan Griffith (she/her): I think you're right in that. It's a safety thing where, like, you don't want to invest time, energy, and love into someone who's going to let you down later. Right? It's like a very self protective mechanism. But I also wonder if it's like
Megan Griffith (she/her): you didn't feel mirrored as a kid, you know you didn't feel seen. And so if other people are exactly like you, then you'll know that you're safe because they're like you. And they seem okay. They seem like functional people. It's a way of like outsourcing our agency and outsourcing our self belief and self love to other people like well, if I like them, and they're exactly like me, then I'm allowed to like myself. But as soon as they're different from me all of a sudden. My identity is being threatened.
Megan Griffith (she/her): you know.
Amy: Yeah, I think, yeah, you definitely hit on that
Amy: thing because I mean, this journey of self-love has been such a long, long journey.
Amy: And and yeah, and then I always tend to look for that validation, I mean, especially since, like this friend
Amy: has give me good advice, but sometimes it feels unsolicited, and sometimes it feels like
Amy: her opinion on certain things is based on her own experience and not fully knowing mine, and why I.
Amy: Decide to do things I do.
Amy: And again, that feels like
Amy: a thorn in my side. It's like, Well, you're my friend, so you're supposed to agree with my decision making, and think that I'm smart and funny all the time, like I don't know.
Megan Griffith (she/her): There's no, there's a really real thing that happens when we are consistently rejected or invalidated growing up. And it's that
Megan Griffith (she/her): we come to associate people disagreeing with us or pointing out our flaws as being because we weren't connected with and attached to at that early age. We don't have that foundation that we can rest on when everything else is stripped away. When people disagree with us, it can feel like we're left floating in the ether, and it feels really bad and scary, so I am so so familiar with that. So
Megan Griffith (she/her): I think something I've done to help with this a little bit is like
Megan Griffith (she/her): practicing little thought experiments, because I can't practice in relationship with other people, or I couldn't at first, st because it was way too scary and too intense. But I could practice like in my head a little bit. So like.
Megan Griffith (she/her): I might
Megan Griffith (she/her): think, like, Okay, we're gonna go see this movie like, okay, we went to see the wrinkle in Time movie. This was years ago, when it 1st came out. A wrinkle in time is one of my favorite books ever written. It is. It is one of the 1st books where I saw myself. I mean she had my name. Her name was Meg, and she was me. It was crazy. And like, I love that book.
Megan Griffith (she/her): And
Megan Griffith (she/her): I went to see the movie. And I loved the movie. And it was the music. And it was literally so good, and my husband didn't get it. He was like, I don't understand.
Amy: Rule.
Megan Griffith (she/her): Yeah, yeah.
Amy: Kind of thing. Yeah.
Megan Griffith (she/her): Devastating, but like and I literally I I went into a verbal shutdown for about 24 h, like I could not speak at all because I was so upset
Megan Griffith (she/her): and all this stuff. But how I got out of it, I think, if I'm remembering correctly, is like I had to walk myself through like.
Megan Griffith (she/her): what does it mean that he disagrees with me, you know, just like, get really, really granular about it like not. What do I assume. It means like what
Megan Griffith (she/her): I'm not explaining this. Well, I had a journaling exercise. I used to do that. I really recommend where you open up a journal to 2 blank pages, and on the left side left. Yes, left. Okay.
Megan Griffith (she/her): You write down how it feels. So this is where I would write.
Megan Griffith (she/her): Adam didn't like a wrinkle in time. This is my favorite book of all time. He doesn't understand me. He doesn't know me. I'm not safe. This isn't the right relationship for me like, how did I end up here?
Megan Griffith (she/her): All of the panic spiral? Right? Then, on the right side, you write down just the facts like stuff. You could submit in a court of law as evidence, right? And so that's where I would write something like, Adam said. I don't understand.
Amy: Okay.
Megan Griffith (she/her): you know, like literal facts, no assumptions. It's really hard to do, actually. But then I could look at both sides and be like, okay, actually, these make sense. My emotions aren't crazy. And at the same time they maybe don't totally reflect reality, you know, like, and being able to balance that always brings me back, down.
Amy: Yeah, yeah. A lot of that.
Amy: A lot of that rings true for me. I don't want to talk over other people's.
Megan Griffith (she/her): Yeah, I do. Wanna check the chat. But no, I think this was helpful for other people, too.
Megan Griffith (she/her): Let's see, Bar crawls in your twenties. Brunch calls in your thirties and forties. I love that. I'm starting to wonder if I am able to be in a relationship, or have I just not found my person yet. I'm on my second marriage. That's soon to be dissolved. I realized I was nd last year. 1st spouse was controlling and not my person. Current spouse is narcissistic, I believe, and we just aren't compatible. Yeah.
Megan Griffith (she/her): fonda. I'm really sorry to to be in relationship with a controlling person. And then someone with, you know, narcissistic tendencies that they're not working on like is that sounds very, very hard. And
Megan Griffith (she/her): it is hard to know whether, like, you know our relationships right for me. Do I want one anymore like, I don't even know
Megan Griffith (she/her): is my, do. I have a person out there and like, I'm not sure if I believe in like finding your person. I think we choose our people right like, does that make sense that like it feels like splitting hairs. But I think there's a distinction there.
Megan Griffith (she/her): Because, like, I don't know, I
Megan Griffith (she/her): I put this in one of the emails that went out about this. But like
Megan Griffith (she/her): love is not just a feeling like love is a choice that you make over and over to show up for somebody.
Megan Griffith (she/her): And sometimes you need to stop making that choice right? Because they're not making that choice for you. And that's a really painful thing to go through. But at the same time, like.
Megan Griffith (she/her): sometimes people are going to make that choice for you, and it's going to feel really good and special. You know.
Megan Griffith (she/her): the paradox of tolerance. Yeah, yeah. One of my friends, and I need to figure out what we have in common other than the office and Bob's burgers, because she doesn't like or care about the things I do. And the same for me. It's tough to plan things other than grabbing food and watching TV. I used to think I needed to take interest in other people's interests. But I don't think like that anymore, because things cost money, and it needs to be worth it for both of us. Yeah. Yvonne. Yes, like.
Megan Griffith (she/her): I'm a big activity based hanger outer right? Like, I want to hang out and do something because I'm not great at like just sitting and chatting very often. I'm just not good at it, like it stresses me out.
Megan Griffith (she/her): So I think, maybe like finding friends who share like activities, and then you can discover things that you like about each other, or things that you have in common like. It sounds like you. This friend, like you would like to find things in common with them. But it it seems like, maybe it's not there.
Megan Griffith (she/her): But that's 1 potential way to figure it out is
Megan Griffith (she/her): activity-based hangouts, I think, are really good.
Megan Griffith (she/her): My closest friend of nearly 30 years is only
Megan Griffith (she/her): still my friend, because 25 years ago she moved out of the country distance works for me. Yeah, I get that. My husband and I were long distance for, like
Megan Griffith (she/her): 7 or 8 years, 8 years, I think
Megan Griffith (she/her): not that long distance, like we were only a couple hours away from each other, but still like.
Megan Griffith (she/her): And it really especially at the beginning of our relationship, where I was like. I don't know how to be in a relationship. I don't. My husband was my 1st boyfriend. I was like I don't know how to do this. So the distance worked. The distance helps.
Megan Griffith (she/her): I understand, understand that feeling of not being mirrored. It's a mind fact, it really really is.
Megan Griffith (she/her): Yes, that person who makes this choice. I'm hopeful. I'm hopeful, too, Fonda, because I have met you outside of this, and like I know how incredibly sweet and cool and interesting you are, and like
Megan Griffith (she/her): I don't know. I hope I hope you find that person, too. I hope we all find our people right like I hope we all find and choose our people right like
Megan Griffith (she/her): I just, I think, audh dears, sometimes we count ourselves out of relationships because we think we're too much or not enough, or somehow both, which sucks. And I just I want this little 3 day event to really help remind you that, like you are
Megan Griffith (she/her): worthwhile. You are worthy of love and attention, and time and care and effort. Right? And
Megan Griffith (she/her): I just want that for all of you. If you want it. You know
Megan Griffith (she/her): whether it's romantically, platonically, familially, familially. I don't know that that's a word. But you know what I mean.
Megan Griffith (she/her): I want you to have the love that you want.
Megan Griffith (she/her): Okay, are there any last questions or thoughts before we go? This has been really lovely. I think.
Megan Griffith (she/her): I hope
Megan Griffith (she/her): anything else anybody wants to say before we head out, oh, you guys, you're welcome.
Megan Griffith (she/her): Good! I'm glad, Rose.
Megan Griffith (she/her): All right. Well, tomorrow same time, same place. It should be the same zoom link. But I'll send it out again tomorrow with the replay from tonight. And yeah, tomorrow. We're gonna chat with my husband. So come with questions because he he's like, what do you want to know? I don't know. Like he's so funny. He's like, I don't understand why people want to talk to me like, you're the person who knows about all this stuff. And I'm like.
Megan Griffith (she/her): Yeah, but I could never answer their questions about what it's like to be neurotypical. And he's like.
Megan Griffith (she/her): what do you mean like? He's like, I'm just a person. And I'm like, No, no, that's you thinking that you're the default. That's part of the problem, honey, and he's like, he's like, Okay, no, you're right. Oh, my gosh, yeah, grill him! What are you at?
Megan Griffith (she/her): Oh, my gosh, okay, well, I'll see you guys tomorrow. Bye, everybody.